Frisge and boiler cut-out (English)

Hallo:
How is your English? Probably better than my German! Can anybody help with the following problems?

I have 2006 KNAUS Sport Traveller 605DKG with a CALIRA VB06-1 controller, Calira EVS-30/20-DS/IU charger, and a 80Ah AGM leisure battery. The only modification (made by the dealer) was a WAECO 360W inverter, connected directly to the leisure battery.

PROBLEM Number 1 (less important): If the engine is stopped and I turn on the inverter (with little or no load connected), the kitchen and bathroom lights go off and the NOT EIN red indicator on the control panel turns on. I turn off the inverter, and then turn off and on again the control panel main switch, and the lights work again.

PROBLEM Number 2 (more important): The leisure battery is in a "OK" charged state according to the control panel. However, at certain moments (I don't know when exactly), the fridge goes off. It will not work on 12V (with engine on) or on gas. Also, unless I turn the heating or hot water on, the TRUMA boiler's safety valve opens, emptying the boiler. Normally, this valve will stay up so long as the control panel main switch is on (and ambient temperature is >8ºC). As soon as I connect the motorcaravan to a 220V supply, the fridge works perfectly (220V, 12V and gas operation), and boiler safety valve works again perfectly. I can now immediately disconnect the 220V supply, and everything is back to normal (for a few hours). This suggests to me that it is probable that the problem is not in the fridge or the heater, rather the power supply is in some abnormal mode, and is reset by connecting 220v. I have tried turning off the general 12V isolator but it does not help.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Best regards

Michael Baldwin
Vitoria, Spain.

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Micheal,

it is difficult to do a remote diagnosis......but possibly your problems 1 and 2 are connected.

One thing that could cause your problems is a dead or almost dead battery which doesn't accept current any more. As soon as you are hooked to 220V everythign is ok because now the juice is coming from the Calira EVS.

Do you have the possibility to measure the voltage on the leisure battery when you turn on the inverter? Sounds like the inverter is drawing an awful lot of current which triggers something in the panel which then switches into emergency (battery empty) mode. The problem could also be cooencted to the battery.

cheers, Manfred

Hello Michael,

I am no electrician, but I had some years ago a similar problem.

In fact the solution was simple: There was a mounting of a fuse in the 12V-circuit, which was too wide for the fuse. So the fuse shook loose while driving. Sometimes it did not shook loose, sometime it did - fuzzy to do a diagnosis. It took me 1 year. After having changed the mounting and having fitted a new fuse, everything was ok. Price: 2,50 Euro.

Another idea: Have you already disconnected the Waeco inverter from the battery? Perhaps the inverter does short-circuit the system?

Good luck!

Torsten

Hello to Manfred and TorstenS:

Thanks for your help. I have got a little closer to the source of the problem. I have connected a voltmeter across the leisure battery. I found that when I connect the motorhome to the 230v external connection, the battery voltage rises quickly to 14v, showing that it is being charged. However, when I disconnect the 230v input and start the engine, the battery voltage does not change. If the battery is at 12v, then it stays at 12v. As I travel, with the fridge on 12v mode, the battery voltage slowly goes down. When it reaches around 11v, the fridge goes off, and the NOT EIN light comes on. So I have to look for the reason that the battery is not being charged. Any ideas for where to look? :?: One problem I have is that the KNAUS manual does not have a proper electrical circuit diagram, it only has a schematic cabling diagram. Does anybody have a KNAUS Sport Traveller circuit diagram? :?:

I will contact CALIRA, because I think KNAUS is not trading anymore, right?

Hello Mike123,
your problem sounds as a "low voltage" problem. And it sounds for me as your alternator is not suppliening any current to the "leisure battery".
If you are connected to 230V and your Calira charger is working, you have no problems. If your charger is not connected during driving the 12V supply from your leisure batterie slowly is dropping to a level where your Caliera charger is signalling "low voltage and trips off all load.
Normally there is a "cut off relais" which is cutting off the leisure battery if the engine is not running. The steering signal for this relais is a D+ signal, generated by the alternator.
This signal line as well as the leisure battery charging line is secured by a fuse. I have no idee where these fuses are located in your car but I would start looking nearby the batteries (start batterie / leisure battery)
I hope this is giving you a hint here to look, good luck
Andreas

Hello Michael

My English is also not as good, if any write.

But as I see it, you have only 12 volts the major difficulties. Please remember that building a 12-volt battery is empty very quickly if you have several connected consumers.

On the Fridge: When my Hymer's 12-volt operation only when I drive and then only to cool conservation.
More unfortunately, I can not announce you.

Many greetings to Spain and a Merry Christmas

Friedhelm :lenker: :womobus:

Hello friends: The story to date: the problem I have is that the onboard charger is not charging the leisure battery when the engine is running. I think that the charger, if it were getting >14v on the "current-in" terminal, would be charging the leisure battery, becuase it is receiving a 14v signal from the alternator, but the problem is that the "current in" terminal is at 0v. I believe that this is due to a fault in the "+" connection from the starter battery, specifically the section of cable (or a possible inline fuse) between a connector beneath the passenger seat, and the starter battery itself, but I don't know (a) whether there is a fuse in this section and where it might be (the Calira manual specifies a 40A fuse, which I haven't found yet), nor (b) exactly what the cable routing is from the passnger seat to the starter battery.
Can anybody help? Tomorrow is christmas eve and it's rather cold here with no heating in the Cantabrian mountains of Spain....
Thanks in advance, Mike

[quote="mike123"]I forgot to say that the chassis/cabin for this KNAUS SPort Traveller is a 2006 DUCATO 2.4l

Hello Mike, your problem is, that the enginedriven Generator/Alternator do not charge the Batt. II(leisure). For this function the EVS need D+ /12V at connection # 18, is this you call "current in-Terminal". If it is so, the D+cable has a interruption, most is the fuse, you find near at Batt.I(starter batt.) Is a 2 Amp. fuse. If I am right and the fuse is defect or have corrosion, after replacement all must be i.O. D+ steers the relais inside EVS, in German "Trennrelais", this one switches 12 power DC from Alt. over Batt. I to Batt. II. and to Fridge. Write me, if the problem is not solved and look at Calira.de for downloading Operation instructions(german, engl.,french), because there are the connectors with numbers and I can tell you more and easier. Greetings and best Wishes for Succes Richi

kintzi hat geschrieben:Hello Mike, your problem is, that the enginedriven Generator/Alternator do not charge the Batt. II(leisure). For this function the EVS need D+ /12V at connection # 18....(ABRIDGED)........................ Succes Richi

Hello Kintzi: PIN 18 (the alternator signal) is at 14v. This is OK. The problem is PIN 26 and PIN 27, which should both be connected to the + connection of the starter battery ("Battery I") . But it is at 0v with the engine running! I have followed this wire from the Calira charger 12-pin plug, all the way to underneath the passenger seat. Here there is a connector. I separated the connector. I checked the continuity from PIN 26/27 to the connector (OK). Then I checked the continuity from the connector to the battery I + terminal (in the engine compartment). Here there was NO connection. So this is where the problem must lie, I think. What I don't know is:
1) physically how the wire is routed from the connector under the passenger seat to the battery I + terminal (it seems to disappear under the floor near the RH wheel arch).
2) If there is a fuse in this section, and where it is.
3) Whether this wire is a FIAT or KNAUS wire. (tomorrow, Christmas eve is my last chance to try to get some response from the local FIAT and KNAUS people but they are too busy trying to pack up for Christmas!
Thanks for your ongoing help!

Hello Mike, there is a fuse in the 6 square-mm wiring Bat I to EVS, this must have 40 Amps an is near the Batt I, also near the D+ fuse. This one is a Maxi fuse (italian producer) and I remember, the case is red. I don`t believe, that the cable is damaged. I don`t know the exact track of this cable, if you want, I can indentify this tomorrow by daylight on my Knaus(658LG).There is the same connector under my right seat. This cable is applicated by Knaus factory at production. If the big fuse is o.k., a disconnection is at last possibel, check first the terminals, if they are ok, make a new 6 mm2 cable. Hoping, that you can localize the failure and best wishes Richi

kintzi hat geschrieben:Hello Mike, there is a fuse in the 6 square-mm wiring Bat I to EVS, this must have 40 Amps an is near the Batt I, also near the D+ fuse. This one is a Maxi fuse (italian producer) and I remember, the case is red. I don`t believe, that the cable is damaged. I don`t know the exact track of this cable, if you want, I can indentify this tomorrow by daylight on my Knaus(658LG).There is the same connector under my right seat. This cable is applicated by Knaus factory at production. If the big fuse is o.k., a disconnection is at last possibel, check first the terminals, if they are ok, make a new 6 mm2 cable. Hoping, that you can localize the failure and best wishes Richi

Many thanks Richi, you were right! Actually I found the blown 40A fuse that you mention, and fixed it on 24th Dec, and I have just read your reply on 26th Dec. Actually, the fuse is green. I could not get another "maxi-fuse" from my dealer, so I took a C-shaped fuse, and I bent and cut the terminals to fit. And so far, so good. What I don't know is, why it blew in the first place. I plan to fit a +/- ampmeter to the leisure battery, in a place which is visible while driving. Then I can detect the problem quickly next time. By the way, the cable goes under the passenger-side step, and up under the dashboard, behind the FIAT fuses on the RH side. Vielen dank, and merry christmas to all!

Hello Mike, I am glad, that you have found the failure and you have no troubles with EVS and inbuild "Trennrelais"", that would be more expensive. Why the fuse was blowing out, I can`t tell you. Replace it and wait (with reserve fuse). The quality of the fuse holder and the fuses are not good. So `04, at my new Knaus (production 09/ 04, delivery 09/21/04) the 20 Amps charging fuse near leisure Batt II the plastic-holder and fuse was heat up and melted by resistance of the knife connection of fuse. I have replaced it by screwed fuse, since no problems. I suppose, that your fuse has gone from this world not by shortening of cable, I believe, that by deep discharged Batt II the Amps by Alternator where to high, by my Batt Computer for circuitII have seen charging Amps til 50 Amps. But I can`t excluse sure shortenig by cable now and then, you must observe, I recommend the installation of Batt.-Comp., I have German Votronic , other fine Comp. is Nasa Comp from UK(250€).You can so quckly discover mistakes and most find the right diagnosis. I hope, you have had, instead your trouble with the the electric, nice Cristmas and I wish you a good new year without troubles. Best Greetings Richi PS. If you have in future other troubles ,contact me, I will allways help you, if I can, because we have the same facilitie.